Maybe we ALL need to learn how to hold back...
For example, every few weeks I talk with this one woman I went out with maybe twice last year. Got that? TWICE. After which she started to get upset with me if there was a week gone by I didn't make time for her. Now we hadn't made any confessions of love or anything. Not even confessions of "hey, you're pretty ok." Next thing I know, she's acting like we're seriously dating instead of just getting to know one another. I get a tad concerned, start to pull back, and EXPLAIN why and she responds with "It's cause you don't know me."
I give her the goold ol', "I know what I have seen so far and I ain't thrilled with where it's heading."
Anywho, that's the backstory.
We still talked a bit and played literati on yahoo messenger and such. But every few weeks we would chat. If she wasn't around for more than that I knew she found a new guy. And EVERY time it would go the same way. She meets the guy. They talk. He actually calls her again. They talk more. They hang out. They get physical WAY too soon cause she thinks knowing where he grew up and what types of food he likes means they know each other. She misses all the clues. She cooks dinner for the guy within the first 5 dates. Usually, it's within the first 3 or at least starts offering it then.
Now this is where I usually come in cause she just LOVES talking about the new guy she's found. I make a few comments trying to draw her attention to certain irregularities which always exist. Whether it's teh guy saying he can't get enough of her that she hasn't heard from in two weeks cause he's busy at work or the guy who is usually too tired for sex , she actually BELIEVES what they tell her and it's the next week when it finally hits her that something IS wrong. She swears off dating and men. She starts picking sarcasm fights with me and then disappears for a bit. Three to four weeks later, the cycle starts over. Oh, and she usually does something stupid in the meantime. Sleeping with someone else to get the guy mad or jealous even though he actually has to CONTACT her to find out... that one was my favorite.
Regardless, it's a cycle. A cycle she can't break.
And it is all her fault.
You can blame the guys for not appreciating here, sure, but SHE picks the guys.
You can blame the fear of loneliness for driving her to attach herself too quickly to the first guy to come along, but she should be smart enough to realize that by now. She is, btw... she has commented on it repeatedly.
All I know is, I often find myself suggesting:
Do NOT cook dinner within the first ten dates, nor even OFFER to do so. She can talk about her ability to cook but make the guy EARN that. (She offered to cook for me BEFORE the first date). This can also be anything you are good at. I am pretty decent at massages but I don't offer them on the first or second date.
Avoid jumping into anything sexual. Not just sex. ANYTHING sexual. Unless that is the point of the relationship, of course. I know women can be just like the cliched "Guy" and sometimes just want the nooky but at least ADMIT THAT. Even if only to yourself. And I lump massages into THIS part, too.
Watch for the signs that the guy is NOT interested. So many women like looking for the signs of interest that they miss the obvious bits that show the guy AIN'T all that into her. Same is true for women. Great, he asks questions... does he listen to the answers? Not talking about remembering. I have a weak memory for details... remember the STORY but lose some details. I am talking about LISTENING. Guys who want some play know how to do the "uh huh" and "Really?" and "Wow" bits pretty well. I don't know HOW often I hear "wow, no one has ever asked those types of questions" or "no one's ever told me that before". One woman actually was upset to learn that she really WAS too vague in her stories. No one had ever told her they didn't understand the story cause it was just a bit above "He went with her to this place and did that once." No lie... she included ONE name in that sentence and was surprised I didn't know what the hell she was talking about. Now, I am not trying to paint myself as this great person... I find myself at times involved with a story that isn't that interesting. I try to fight the urge to zone out but fail. Not often, but it happens. I try to let the person KNOW that, though.
Take some ME time. This is true even when not dating but becomes important when you are. It feels great to be in a relationship where you WANT to be around each other all the time. And it's even better when you CAN be around each other all the time without arguing even once. But let that develop over time. Don't try to force it. In the beginning, young people especially want to try to see each other a lot. This is called being horny. I'm sorry... you can call it "interest" or "infatuation" or "curiosity" but it really boils down to arousal. Sex is not a BAD thing in a relationship until it becomes the sole focus. Like how in the beginning sex is that thing you do AFTER the movie. The you start to say things like "We have an hour before the movie starts". Finally, you stop even planning on seeing the movie. This is great if that is the point of the relationship. But when one or both sides are believing it all to be a serious relationship with marriage potential, this can be a problem. Cause during that whole sexual phase, the relationship isn't growing. So if you are around each other all the time but not really doing anything to build the relationship to the point where it can sustain all this time, it will not survive. So read a book. Watch a show YOU like that the other person might not. Go for a drive on your own. Whatever hobby or interest you might have, go DO that. And don't count WORK as me time. That's just retarded.
Be Fair. This sounds easy but it isn't. It means be honest and open but don't be the ONLY one doing that. It means if you aren't serious about the relationship, tell the person. If you never expect to be, why waste time? If YOU can blatantly see that it won't work out, why not find someone it CAN work out with? I don't get it. Sure, if oyu are just in it for fun and stuff, that's fine. As long as the other person KNOWS this. Be fair to EVERYONE involved.
There are others, of course, but these are the ones relevant to the example I gave so I will stop here. Any comments?
I give her the goold ol', "I know what I have seen so far and I ain't thrilled with where it's heading."
Anywho, that's the backstory.
We still talked a bit and played literati on yahoo messenger and such. But every few weeks we would chat. If she wasn't around for more than that I knew she found a new guy. And EVERY time it would go the same way. She meets the guy. They talk. He actually calls her again. They talk more. They hang out. They get physical WAY too soon cause she thinks knowing where he grew up and what types of food he likes means they know each other. She misses all the clues. She cooks dinner for the guy within the first 5 dates. Usually, it's within the first 3 or at least starts offering it then.
Now this is where I usually come in cause she just LOVES talking about the new guy she's found. I make a few comments trying to draw her attention to certain irregularities which always exist. Whether it's teh guy saying he can't get enough of her that she hasn't heard from in two weeks cause he's busy at work or the guy who is usually too tired for sex , she actually BELIEVES what they tell her and it's the next week when it finally hits her that something IS wrong. She swears off dating and men. She starts picking sarcasm fights with me and then disappears for a bit. Three to four weeks later, the cycle starts over. Oh, and she usually does something stupid in the meantime. Sleeping with someone else to get the guy mad or jealous even though he actually has to CONTACT her to find out... that one was my favorite.
Regardless, it's a cycle. A cycle she can't break.
And it is all her fault.
You can blame the guys for not appreciating here, sure, but SHE picks the guys.
You can blame the fear of loneliness for driving her to attach herself too quickly to the first guy to come along, but she should be smart enough to realize that by now. She is, btw... she has commented on it repeatedly.
All I know is, I often find myself suggesting:
Do NOT cook dinner within the first ten dates, nor even OFFER to do so. She can talk about her ability to cook but make the guy EARN that. (She offered to cook for me BEFORE the first date). This can also be anything you are good at. I am pretty decent at massages but I don't offer them on the first or second date.
Avoid jumping into anything sexual. Not just sex. ANYTHING sexual. Unless that is the point of the relationship, of course. I know women can be just like the cliched "Guy" and sometimes just want the nooky but at least ADMIT THAT. Even if only to yourself. And I lump massages into THIS part, too.
Watch for the signs that the guy is NOT interested. So many women like looking for the signs of interest that they miss the obvious bits that show the guy AIN'T all that into her. Same is true for women. Great, he asks questions... does he listen to the answers? Not talking about remembering. I have a weak memory for details... remember the STORY but lose some details. I am talking about LISTENING. Guys who want some play know how to do the "uh huh" and "Really?" and "Wow" bits pretty well. I don't know HOW often I hear "wow, no one has ever asked those types of questions" or "no one's ever told me that before". One woman actually was upset to learn that she really WAS too vague in her stories. No one had ever told her they didn't understand the story cause it was just a bit above "He went with her to this place and did that once." No lie... she included ONE name in that sentence and was surprised I didn't know what the hell she was talking about. Now, I am not trying to paint myself as this great person... I find myself at times involved with a story that isn't that interesting. I try to fight the urge to zone out but fail. Not often, but it happens. I try to let the person KNOW that, though.
Take some ME time. This is true even when not dating but becomes important when you are. It feels great to be in a relationship where you WANT to be around each other all the time. And it's even better when you CAN be around each other all the time without arguing even once. But let that develop over time. Don't try to force it. In the beginning, young people especially want to try to see each other a lot. This is called being horny. I'm sorry... you can call it "interest" or "infatuation" or "curiosity" but it really boils down to arousal. Sex is not a BAD thing in a relationship until it becomes the sole focus. Like how in the beginning sex is that thing you do AFTER the movie. The you start to say things like "We have an hour before the movie starts". Finally, you stop even planning on seeing the movie. This is great if that is the point of the relationship. But when one or both sides are believing it all to be a serious relationship with marriage potential, this can be a problem. Cause during that whole sexual phase, the relationship isn't growing. So if you are around each other all the time but not really doing anything to build the relationship to the point where it can sustain all this time, it will not survive. So read a book. Watch a show YOU like that the other person might not. Go for a drive on your own. Whatever hobby or interest you might have, go DO that. And don't count WORK as me time. That's just retarded.
Be Fair. This sounds easy but it isn't. It means be honest and open but don't be the ONLY one doing that. It means if you aren't serious about the relationship, tell the person. If you never expect to be, why waste time? If YOU can blatantly see that it won't work out, why not find someone it CAN work out with? I don't get it. Sure, if oyu are just in it for fun and stuff, that's fine. As long as the other person KNOWS this. Be fair to EVERYONE involved.
There are others, of course, but these are the ones relevant to the example I gave so I will stop here. Any comments?
posted by wmjwatson at 10:56 AM
8 Comments:
All excellent points. But don't you think that this is the kind of thing where it's easy to KNOW what you should and shouldn't do but not as easy to keep in mind when you're in that 'new guy' high? Also, telling all of this to someone is well-intentioned but unlikely to really work. You pretty much have to learn how to handle (or not handle) relationships on your own. Oh! and my favorite part was "That's just retarded." You're terribly deep sometimes ;)
It's not hard to keep these in mind at all. It should be second nature. And don't forget, I did say "need to LEARN" to do it. That new high, huh? You mean where people tend to put on their blinders? I know you always laughed it off, but the handshake test really does work. And I realize the difficulty in explaining to people the nonsense they are putting themselves thru at the time... but I still do it. No point in beating around the bush or lying about it. If I think you are being silly, I tell you. If it means we don't hang out (me and the new significant other), then damn. I wouldn't want to see a friend being stupid ANYHOW.
Yes, I'm sure it works, just not in the way you might think it does.
Nope... the handshake test is tried and true and proven. You're just mad cause you thought it was odd and that it afected your results. But it WAS correct. The only time it's ineffective is with other guys.
All I can think about when I read this post is the episode of Seinfeld where they all point out to Jerry that he seems to find something wrong with EVERY woman he dates...you know, hands are too large, close talker, soft talker...
I mean, granted, I'm no dating expert, but I like to think I'm a little more laid back than most women when it comes to that girly girl BS that some of them thrive on...
Yes, but the handshake test is not a reason to break up with someone (using your Seinfeld ref) but a way to determine the likelihood of anything working out from the get go. It's a rather complicated thing to explain, especially here, but it DOES work. SOLME people have just always been bitter cause they didn't realize it was a "test" and they blew it BIG time. But we ended up being much better friends than we could've EVER been as "lovers" so it was right. Right, Julie? Cough.
Hmmm. I wonder how I did at this handshake test...I'm almost afraid to ask....
Amy, you did fine on the handhsake test. It's a very odd test with no real pass/fail aspect... more of a degree type of thing.
Oh, and as for the woman who partly inspired this posting (and commented to ME directly about it instead of POSTING HERE which would've been keen!)... I know there was "more to it" than just what I listed... there ALWAYS is. But actually... sorry... that's all BS.. details confuse the issue. I am trying to get to the bottom of the problem, not examine all the finer points.
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